On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Martins Krebs <mkrebs3@kent.edu> wrote:

Here is what i have for the base that will hold and suspend containers of wax and have enough clearance for a hot water bath to be underneath it.

The 2 'z' motors can be bolted to each leg (4 linear holes)

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Paul O'Neill <Paul.O'Neill.GR@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

I mispoke about Tri-C laser.  It is 32.  Cardboard should still come out ok.

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:43 AM, Paul O'Neill <Paul.O'Neill.GR@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

Corey, thanks for the inlineum response.  I will try to make a punch list out of the conversation, and lust them in the order of importance, as follows.

1. Machine Base:  Marty.  Design base of machine promised for Wednesday.  Wednesday is when Marty to get a rough design for base.  Marty will need to select tanks for the wax and figure out how to mount what you design to what he designs.  Once Marty locks down the concept, then he can produce some CAD and then cut some plywood on the Shopbot.  For example, we talked about using an immersion heater to heat up a disposable aluminum food pan full of water to melt wax.  Furthermore, we will have wax in simple tomato cans immersed in the hot bath of water.

2.  Bridge/column design.  Lets call the horizontal axis X, and the two vertical columns, Z1 and Z2.  We need to verify which of the MtM files to use to cut cardboard.  Corey does not have Rhino where is is, so he cannot parametrically edit files.  Also, Corey has pointed to the link where the files can be downloaded for a 24" laser cutter.  Chris Rohal suggested using the files for the bigger printer at Tri-C.   Corey's link "download directly" somehow provides a file called "ParametricStage.zip" which appears to be a floor plan for the new Fablab at LCCC.  A mistake perhaps?  Bridge to column mount design.  Corey, please note that the bridge may become uneven at some point, and I believe there should be some way for this connection to allow the bridge to pivot on the column until it is square (90 degrees).  How do we get the bridge level and square at the same time.  At some point you will be back and I feel you should be tasked with this part of the assembly.  It could be as simple as a couple of bearing plates, a large diameter screw and a nylock nut.  You want the connection to be snug with minimal slop.  However, you don't want to cause a binding up.  Really important with bridge-style machines.  I've worked on bridge style machine tools and alignment on them is an issue.  I know this is cardboard and maybe I am overthinking this, but I thought I would put my thoughts out there now so you could consider an easy way to address it early on rather than after the fact, just in case a binding up occurs.

3.  Assembly:  I believe we have all materials needed except electronic cable, power supply, glue and clamps.  I have a power supply at home I can bring in, but I also think Chris offered one yesterday.  We may need to add a piece of thin plywood to provide more support where the motor mounts.  Last year's Zen Garden project is falling apart and it just had to strike a few wind chimes. 

​ The design has the stage ride on these bushings:  https://www.mcmaster.com/#6389K625.  If you go to McMaster, you can download Solidworks or Autocad files for the part.  I think this is the only McMaster Carr part in the project, so far.  This part may have to be glued into Luan.  Chris R. did mention they used hot glue on the project.  The Nadya site shows carpenter glue on the bill of material.  There is also a callout for aluminum 3/8" diameter tubing, also from McMaster, and already supplied by LCCC.

Dipping a candle will be a repetitive process, so we should consider the weak areas of the design and reinforce.  This stiffener could be glued in during assembly.  I was thinking about a 3d printed part, but I think luan would provide more structure and could be cut on a laser.  Also, with the double column, we may need to depend on this being a hard stop.  No inputs for limit switches on control.  Paul and Marty can work on this at assembly time.

4. Laser cutting Cardboard Parts: Marty/Tri-C has a 36" wide laser cutter, so we should be looking at using the MtM files which lend themselves to that.  I found some cardboard cut files that are in DXF format.  They are in autocad format, so they should be ready to cut.  I checked them out and they are indeed 36".  Here is a look at them:

​

The caveat is they are designed for a certain thickness (0.15" cardboard) which I think we have.  I don't understand the 27-1/2" dimension on the left.  I think we should try abbreviating that dimension to 24" if needed to fit the laser cutter at Tri-C.  I will look at last years slide to see what that is.  I think it just gets folded to the inside and becomes the guide for the stage.  I think we could glue in a blank filler to make it smooth all the way.  Marty, would it be possible for you to cut some of these parts for class tomorrow and we can try folding them up?  Settings for Laser?  I have no idea, but if you review the links Corey sent, you will find some suggested settings.

5.  Electronics:  Paul.  Fabnet board is cut.  I will try to solder today.  Scott, could you find the RS-485 cable with flying leads?  It was not in the bag of parts Chris supplied me yesterday, and he says you know where it is.  Lots of stuff to do here.  Lots of panic!  I will try to flesh this out some more, but I have been spending time getting everything else organized.  There is a good link here about programming and cables:  http://archive.monograph.io/james/m-mtm

I am straight out busy today.  I cannot visit Lorain or Tri-C.  However, call me any time 216-534-9600 with any questions.

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Corey Rice <crice009@gmail.com> wrote:

I responded inline below

Corey M. Rice

Mayfield High School Science
Bowling Green State University Alumni

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Paul O'Neill <Paul.O'Neill.GR@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

Corey,

I met with Chris R this morning and delved into motors, journals, circuit cards.  I took photos of measurements.  i later machined the Fabnet board and assembled components.  Scott showed me pully from 3d printer-impressive.    I also received 4 sheets of Uline cardboard. I still need cable from Scott (Rs-485).   I left LCCC and went to tri-C and met with Marty.  I downloaded Corey files and did lengthy discussion about practicality.  We decided dipper 2.  We also discussed Marty designing base of machine (grey objects) including material (wax) buckets and pedestals to elevate columns and bridge high enough to clear wax buckets. 

 

Design promised for Wed done in Solidworks. 

Rough design is done, and that is what I shared this morning: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cmfq7752qhnvl5s/AAA-i7H2LrUKp_p71daK0mCBa?dl=0

Delivered cardboard to Marty.  Corey should complete design of bridge and columns including 3d printed components to support motors better,

I am unclear about what you mean 'to support motors better.' My gut suggests that this is the kind of problem that I would address when the linear stages are assembled and in front of me. It may only take a few shims to add some extra support under those steppers. However, my guess is that we may want the airspace, because steppers can run hot enough they need airflow for cooling.

perhaps you mean that the m3 screws taht hold the stepper motor to the cardboard typically collapse the cardboard. in response, I offer this printable washer: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rs1o4ncnps9a7zs/stepperwasher.SLDPRT?dl=0

It will require a little longer m3 screws, but those shouldn't be too hard to source.

 

and 3d printed component to hold wick.

I designed a simple part to hold the wick. It is just a plate that could be screwed to the slider. Protruding out is a stick that can hold up the candle wick. I would just recommend a binder clip to hold the wick on.

Unfortunately, my internet is spotty right now, but I will try to put it in my shared Dropbox repository again tomorrow morning. 

 

How do we mount bridge to columns?  Corey to propose solution.

I uploaded a dxf of the array of holes that came off of the wickholder part (above) which can be added overtop of the pre-made laser cutting toolpaths. You should be able to put these wherever is most advantageous on the bridge stage. 

 
 

Corey to send dwg file for Laser cutter at tri-c which has 32" bed.

The most well integrated MtM website has a dxf file available for download that is compatible with a 12" by 24" laser bed. I know this is smaller than 

cutting dwg files for a large laser are available for download directly from the MtM project website: http://archive.monograph.io/james/m-mtm

The MtM website links to several example projects, which take on many of the issues we are considering here.

I know that these are parametrically designed laser cuts, but the website makes it clear that they were done in Rhino (which I do not have). The changes that we should need to make may be small.

 

  I will continue on electronics.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:22 AM Corey Rice <crice009@gmail.com> wrote:

Also:

When I thought for myself about how to make a candle, I was thinking about this method and its conventions:
https://www.education.com/activity/article/dipped-candles/

Corey M. Rice

Mayfield High School Science
Bowling Green State University Alumni

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:19 AM, Corey Rice <crice009@gmail.com> wrote:

So, I have shared a link below that will let you access all my design files. Some of them are directly from last year's work and some of them are for this year's project:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cmfq7752qhnvl5s/AAA-i7H2LrUKp_p71daK0mCBa?dl=0

The most important of the parts is the main assembly: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gkgi2y74ol7ss8/candlemaker.SLDASM?dl=0

The design above is what I was thinking about when I sent the previous emails. In my mind, that design was constrained by trying to have the smallest amount of mass lifted (and/or borne) by the stepper motors. This introduced the idea of the pulley, which I still think could  be viable. Using 4mm paracord would certainly introduce degrees of freedom, but I think that it will actually be self-correcting. As the candles get heavier, the weight of the candle will act to help stabilize things (in the same way that a spring in tension would). This could be further enhanced by adding a weight to the end of the paracord, so that it starts off with some tension. I was thinking a couple heavy washers could be enough weight, and serve as a good attachment point for the candle wick (instead of a bowline loop of paracord).

However after reading this email chain, I reconsidered the design and thought you could evaluate a second option:https://www.dropbox.com/s/5d6djekv8nur0cm/candlemaker2.SLDASM?dl=0

I am not personally attached to either of the two plans above. I think both could work. A lot of it depends on the warmers, at this point. My gut says that the second option has more promise, because you fundamentally don't need the part called the 'warmer holder' and that frees up a lot of options for working with odd sizes and shapes of wax melting devices. There are only a few things that would need to be done to make option 2 viable, but it does require lifting an entire MTM slider.

Given the choice between these two options, I would recommend that you choose when you see the actual materials. I think those parts will greatly inform the choice between the two options I present here.

Good luck, and I'll be thinking about you tomorrow!

Corey M. Rice

Mayfield High School Science
Bowling Green State University Alumni

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Martins Krebs <mkrebs3@kent.edu> wrote:

start with a wick was what I thought we were doing. Starting with a pre-made candle works too and saves time.

Candles do "float" in wax unless they are pushed into the material.

I too have some wax we could use

 

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Ronald Zitek <rzitek@lorainccc.edu> wrote:

Are you starting with a wick and making the entire candle or just dipping a completed white candle to add color to it?

I assumed that you would start with a complete white candle and then use the machine to dip it in perhaps three different colors of wax. One axis controls which color wax the candle is located above and the another axis controls how deep the candle is dipped into the color to get different patterns.

The linear axis we use have a fairly limited travel (maybe Paul can cheat and measure this) and you don't want to require a huge amount of colored wax so ideally the vessels that hold the wax will now be much bigger than necessary. For wax we usually use an electric skillet/pan full of water with pans full of wax inside of it. The electric elements heats the water and the heated water melts the wax.

I think Karen said that she has some parifin wax. She said they sell color cubes at Pat Catans for wax.

Do candles float in wax?

Scott

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From: Martins Krebs <mkrebs3@kent.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 6:03:42 PM
To: Paul O'Neill
Cc: Christopher Rohal; Corey Rice; Ronald Zitek
Subject: Re: group project

 

Paul, 

Wicks stay straight because they already have been coated in a layer of wax, keeping the wick rigid when more wax is poured/dipped aroundthe wick. Plus if it got soft, gravity should hold it relatively straight. 

Do we need to make an entire heating assembly from scratch?
Not just purchase something readily available that would perform what we need it to do?
I envisioned using an augmented, low profile griddle, and placing the containers of wax on it, building the machine around that.

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Paul O'Neill <Paul.O'Neill.GR@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

Dear Scott.  I would respectfully like to take exception to your assessment of making a pulley on a 3-d printer.  A pulley is a dynamic element that must run true and be concentric to the pulley shaft.  I believe there are some good opportunities to produce some 3-d components, but this is not one.  I think some pulleys would be helpful.  However I think there may be some issues with the string not wanting to dip initially and there being too much slack on the cable and pulley system.  I think a combination of two slides in combination will be more practical.  Also, Marty, is there a wick material with a metal core available that will stay straight.  Can you find a source for a melter.  How could we fab the melter?  Can it be a circuit board on a high temp material with a wax recepticle on top?  i may be able to help with a thermocouple control.

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 4:02 PM Ronald Zitek <rzitek@lorainccc.edu> wrote:

Remember that this is a fab lab project. You should be able to easily print this pulley on a 3D printer.

I do not think the mechanical components have changed from the BOM -- http://mtm.cba.mit.edu/machines/science/doc/scienceBOM.pdf

  found at http://archive.monograph.io/james/m-mtm

However, the BOM does not include too many details on the stepper motors with integrated lead screws. We do have units in the lab if someone wants to measure any aspect of them.

Scott

---

From: Corey Rice <crice009@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 10:03:17 AM
To: Paul O'Neill
Cc: Ronald Zitek; Christopher Rohal; Martins Krebs
Subject: Re: group project

 

You guys should order one of these from McMaster-Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/#3434t38/=16x7nqk

McMaster-Carr www.mcmaster.com McMaster-Carr supplies products used to maintain manufacturing plants and large commercial facilities worldwide.

I envisioned using standard 4mm paracord laid over this pulley to do the 'heavy' lifting, and we can tie the candle string to a look at the end of the paracord. That way we are 1) only dipping the candle string into the wax, 2) aren't relying on the strength of the candle wick for the machine and 3) won't have to restring the pulley for every use. I am still finishing up the assembly, but will send it along when its done. unfortunately the design files for the stock MTM pieces are more representative than realistic (taken from last year) but you should be able to see what I was thinking without any problem. They will be in the solidworks formats, which is another new software for me.

You will also need some quarter-inch diameter bolts and nuts for the design I am thinking up (various lengths), which is a pretty standard home depot purchase for a couple dollars.

Hope all is well in Ohio!

Corey M. Rice

Mayfield High School Science
Bowling Green State University Alumni

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 11:09 PM, Corey Rice <crice009@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello everybody! 

I am going to take a look at the CAD files for this project and try and get everything in order. I am downloading SOLIDWORKS, so that I can design while traveling, working from last year's project.

I have only a few questions that need answers before I go too far: What size are the rods, stepper motor, bushings and all of the non-cardboard parts of the MTM pieces? If anyone has the McMaster-Carr part numbers handy, I can use their website to inform my design and any changes that need to be made. I expect I could find them if I dig around the website a bit more. Just asking in case it is easily on hand. 

Some design questions:

What does the wax heater look like? Also, what sort of end effector are we thinking? A large wheel to pull the string up and down (possibly driven by gearing)? Or were we expecting to use a pulley system to make use of the standard MTM part's linear motion? 

Thanks all!  I will have parts designed for Monday. 

Corey

On Mar 23, 2017 4:04 PM, "Paul O'Neill" <Paul.O&#39;Neill.GR@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

hi chris.  i'm going to try to get into the board part of the candle dipper project.  will you be available monday to assist me with access to your mill and soldering station and components?

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Paul O'Neill

Weymouth Farms & Orchard

2398 Weymouth Rd

Hinckley, OH 44233

Tel. 216-534-9600

wvpx@aol.com

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Paul O'Neill

Weymouth Farms & Orchard

2398 Weymouth Rd

Hinckley, OH 44233

Tel. 216-534-9600

wvpx@aol.com